Part 3
BREMNER: Nancy, you know, those are two separate things the last time I checked, sending pictures to yourself versus having sex, doing the deed.
GRACE: Okay, you know what?
BREMNER: The fact is one of your other guests --
GRACE: I`ll throw you a bone. Put Bremner up. I`ll throw you a bone, all right?
BREMNER: Okay.
GRACE: You win, Bremner. She`s not having an affair. Let`s just pretend she`s not having an affair.
BREMNER: Okay.
GRACE: Why is she sending hundreds of sexual text messages and sexually explicit photos at a time when her stepson has just gone missing? There. Let me hear the answer to that. I can`t wait to hear this.
BREMNER: Let`s take a look at two scenarios. A, like someone just suggested, they were involved before the disappearance of Kyron.
GRACE: So.
BREMNER: Therefore they`re still involved. Second though is, Nancy - -
GRACE: Her son has just gone missing.
BREMNER: How is this relevant to anything and it --
GRACE: Her state of mind. Hugo, Hugo, Hugo, please, help Anne.
RODRIGUEZ: No, no, I can`t help you, Nancy. State of mind but not as to a crime concerning Kyron. That`s what the focus is. If they plan to charge her with anything concerning her son it is totally irrelevant and not admissible. There`s no way you`re getting that in as a state of mind.
GRACE: You know what? I`m going to go -- I`m not talking about getting something in in court. I`m not talking about something that remote. Right now, Mark Klaas, I am talking about a 7-year-old little boy who is very likely dead, who very likely by all accounts, Terri Horman knows his whereabouts.
I`m talking about now to you, Mark Klaas, who lost your daughter to violence taken out of her own home. I don`t care what the shrink says. I don`t care what the lawyers say. I know what I know. And when your child goes missing, you`re not all about sending sexual texts and photos.
MARK KLAAS: No.
GRACE: I don`t care what any of you say about that.
KLAAS: No, you`re absolutely right about state of mind. I`d like to put a context on the supposed -- or the attempted abduction out of the gym. As I understand it, Kaine had moved out two days previously and he had taken the little girl with him. She knew full well where the child was, but according to the conversation that she had with the gym clerk, she was willing to go in and snatch that little girl away without his permission or without his knowledge.
That in my mind, whether legally or not, is a kidnapping, and this gal was ready to do a high-risk kidnapping to get that little girl away from that man. And as far as I`m concerned, that`s very relevant to the disappearance of Kyron himself. It`s almost in many ways a similar scenario, without any rhyme or reason, without any care about anything but her own immediate needs, she`s willing to make a little girl or a little boy disappear.
GRACE: Mark Klaas, listen. I don`t care who sends what photos over their cell phone as long as I don`t have to look at them. What I`m saying is something about this most recent report that we have just discovered about this mother, this stepmother -- I mean this child is so defenseless.
He`s a 7-year-old little boy, 3 feet tall, 50 pounds, his eyeglasses are like the bottom of coke bottles, and she was entrusted to take care of him, to love him. And within a -- it`s like a minute after she reports him missing, she`s sending sex messages.
KLAAS: She cares about -- she cares about nothing besides herself. This is classic narcissistic behavior without consideration for the consequences. It`s narcissus. It`s sociopathic. There`s nothing good about this woman, her motivation, her actions or the potential of future behavior in future crimes.
GRACE: I mean, Mark, when you`re sitting there right now like I`m sitting here listening to the defense attorneys talk about how it`s relevant, how it`s to going to come into court, how it doesn`t matter. It does matter. To every crime victim out there, you know in your heart it does matter. It proves something.
KLAAS: Of course, it does. And if you want to see how a mother behaves when a child disappears, just look at the other side of this coin. Look at the bio-mom. Look at every time she comes on TV. She begs for information. She says this is about Kyron, this is about Kyron, this is about Kyron. She`s not getting on her phone.
She`s not getting -- taking pictures of herself and send them to somebody. She`s not breaking restraining orders. She`s focused on finding her son and doing nothing more. You can tell that this woman is a complete emotional wreck who only wants to find her child. That`s how a parent behaves when their child is missing, particularly over the long term like this.
GRACE: Take a listen to Kyron`s mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: To know that I was four and a half hours away when he need me to protect him, that`s what I feel guilty for. The fact that I had to work that day instead of going to the science fair like I wanted to, that I feel guilty for too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Kyron`s biological mother, Desiree Young. She was on the NBC "Today" show and I want to remind everyone that Terri Horman has not been named a suspect by police in the disappearance of 7-year-old Kyron. Out to the lines, Chris in New Jersey. Hi, Chris.
CHRIS: Hello, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CHRIS: Have the police given Michael Cook a polygraph yet?
GRACE: Good question. To James Pinken, reporter with The Willamette Week Newspaper, joining us out of Portland, Oregon. James, have they given him a poly?
PITKIN: Nancy he has had interviews with investigators. Whether a polygraph was involved, we`re not sure. But he did say to the public, to the press that they did not have sex. He denied that explicitly.
GRACE: Is he married?
PITKIN: It`s unknown. Not much is known about Michael Cook except that he was involved in the search for Kyron from very early on. He did organized a vigil. He helped put signs up above the highway. He told the press that he became better friends with Terri than he was with Kaine initially so they developed a relationship very quickly.
GRACE: Well, that`s certainly like putting perfume on the pig James Pitkin, by saying they developing a relationship. They were sending naked photos back and forth, James. I would certainly qualify that as more than just a friendship. I`ll be back with James Pitkin reporter with the Atlantic Week Newspaper, but as we go to break, I want to wish a very, very happy birthday to a friend of show, Kylie Barnes.
She`s the beautiful daughter of Karen Barnes who passed away last September and a late Atlanta Fulton County Superior Court Judge, Roland Barnes. He lost his life in that tragic courthouse shooting in 2005. A paralegal with two degrees in criminal justice Kylie wants to go to law school, and she`s writing a book about her father. They were best friends. Happy birthday, Kylie, and, please, stay strong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shocking new allegations.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bombshell tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An alleged love triangle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stepmother Terri Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A sexual relationship with Michael Cook. Who`s Michael Cook?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s only reasonable to assume that people would speculate and become suspicious of Terri.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sexting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Old school friend, Michael Cook.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kyron we miss you, we love you, and we need you home right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New allegations step mom tried to kidnap her baby girl from dad`s gym day care.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New search is underway now for 7-year-old Kyron Horman.
YOUNG: I`m kind of at that point where I`m so angry I don`t even have words. I just really want her to do the right thing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please help us bring Kyron home.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Joshua Perper. Dr. Perper, searchers are focusing on an area near Skyline School. At this point if Kyron is dead, what would be the condition of his body?
PERPER: Well, it depends on what condition the body`s found, in what environment. If he`s unfortunately left on the surface of the earth, the decomposition is going to be faster. If the body is buried or if the body is put in some kind of container. So it depends in what kind of environment and what kind of protective clothing or other equipment the body is encased in.
GRACE: Another question, Dr. Perper, is that it has been suggested that Terri Horman may have suffered postpartum depression after the birth of the little girl. The little girl is about 19 months old. How long does it take for postpartum depression to set in?
PERPER: Well, the depression, the depression related to a pregnancy varies in lengths, but sometimes it appears only with the resolution of pregnancy. In other words after the child is born, and even then it can take several months. It depends on the general constitution of the individual, of the woman, and whether she receives treatment. But that`s a difficult problem because many women during pregnancy for a variety of biological and psychological reasons suffer a depression.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, Jean, I want to go back to hiring the hit man to allegedly kill Kyron`s father. When did that allegedly happen?
CASAREZ: That happened late last year, November/December and we now know that`s the reason for the restraining order. Originally it was sealed but then it was unsealed. And Nancy, towards your state of mind, here`s something else. On June 28 when she went to try to abduct her own little girl, Kiara, their little girl from this gym day care, that`s also the time Michael Cook went over to the house, police searched his cell phone and found a cell phone image of the address where little Kiara would be with her father, and also they found on the cell phone Google map searches of where they were residing at that time.
GRACE: And that says to you they were going to try to get the little girl?
CASAREZ: Two state of minds that are the same. That`s exactly right.
GRACE: What I don`t understand, to Bruce McCain, former captain of the sheriff`s office, attorney, joining us out of Portland, Oregon, is why an arrest has not been made in the hiring -- the alleged hiring of a hit man to kill the husband.
MCCAIN: Well Nancy, as I mentioned last week on this very program, you know as well as I do big difference between probably cause and arrest and proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict. The thing is the prosecutors are working hand in hand with the investigators. The DA is actually controlling this process. They`re not going to arrest Terri Horman for any felony unless and until they have an airtight case they can get a conviction on.
The last thing they want to do is arrest her on some chippy charge only to see her turn around and walk out of the jail with all the cameras on her. So that fact that she`s not been named a suspect or even a person of interest who as you know, has no legal significance at all, doesn`t mean she`s not the focal suspect in this case.
GRACE: What about it, Anne Bremner?
BREMNER: Well, I was just thinking to myself, hiring a hitman is not a chippy charge. But the other thing about it is you said before she`s not a suspect. She`s also not been named a person of interest. The fact of the matter is she`s as innocent as anybody else walking the street in Portland right now, and everyone is throwing stones at her.
GRACE: Please say something relevant.
BREMNER: I`m saying everything relevant.
GRACE: I asked why there has not been an arrest in the hitman case, and you`re talking about people looking at her on the street. I don`t care.
BREMNER: That`s not what I`m talking about. I`m saying everyone is dumping on her in terms of saying that she`s guilty with all kinds of irrelevant evidence. Evidence. And the fact is she has -- there`s been no arrest in the hitman case --
GRACE: Just because you Anne Bremner --
BREMNER: -- they don`t have the evidence. They don`t have the evidence.
GRACE: I know you`ve handled a lot of cases but just because you think the evidence is irrelevant doesn`t mean that it`s irrelevant.
BREMNER: You know what?
GRACE: Go ahead.
BREMNER: It`s so salacious. It`s not what I think. It`s what is going to be admissible in court and by the way, the standard right now the is probable cause. They don`t need proof beyond a reasonable doubt and they haven`t called her a person of interest at the --
GRACE: Thank you. I said that about ten times, that she`s not been named a suspect. Out to the lines, Dorian in Georgia. Hi, Dorian.
DORIAN: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, Dorian. What`s your question, dear?
DORIAN Okay. Well, I was wondering, do they know the whereabouts -- Michael Cook`s whereabouts on the day that Kyron disappeared?
GRACE: Now that is a good question. What about it? To you James Pitkin with the Atlanta Week Newspaper. Where was Cook?
PITKEN: I talked to Kaine Horman. He said that he didn`t see Cook for years, only after Kyron disappeared did he contact the family wanting to help. So it`s uncertain where he was that day, even whether he was aware that the Hormans lived in the vicinity.
GRACE: And Michael Cook is the husband`s high school friend that has gotten hundreds of sexually-related text messages from the stepmother and dozen of sexually explicit photos sent over e-mail and phone. He says they`re not having sex.
Okay, we`re switching gears but I want to give you the tipline, . There`s a $25,000 reward. She`s been kept a prisoner. She has been bound, tied, and under constant surveillance, under 20 cameras. The kidnapper, her own husband.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A California man has been arrested for allegedly binding and beating his wife because she spoke to a, quote, unauthorized man. The victim told cops her husband would regularly beat her and wouldn`t let her leave the house, allegedly installing 20 surveillance cameras inside the house to monitor while he was away.
The wife reportedly told investigators her husband became angry after she spoke to another man, (inaudible), binding her with duct tape in the bathroom and threatening to kill her if the police got involved. The husband turned himself in Monday and was booked on charges including kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon.
GRACE: Straight out to Ellie, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, what happened?
ELLIE: Nancy, police are saying that this 30-year-old victim suffered a brutal pattern of abuse and control at the hands of her own husband. Her friend who was concerned that she hadn`t heard from her, she called in sick to work, reportedly forced to do so by her husband. She went to the house, found this woman bound with duct tape, beaten, confined to the bathroom. This woman told police that the --
GRACE: Ellie, how can a grown woman be confined to the bathroom? It`s like me telling you to go sit in the corner?
ELLIE: Right. Well, apparently, Nancy, the husband threatened her with a knife, said he`d kill her if she called police or if she left the bathroom. They also say he had a very sophisticated surveillance system. Cameras set up all over the house which were streamed to his phone, possibly his iPhone we`ve heard from reports, and that he was monitoring her when he wasn`t home so he knew where she was every minute.
GRACE: So he could watch her in the home over his iPhone?
ELLIE: That`s right. And they say that he had this sophisticated system. He had fingerprint-activated door locks, over $10,000 worth of security and surveillance equipment in that home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot of emotional toll that will take place in a situation like this and the method and the mode was extremely brutal as far as I`m concerned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have arrested a California man after he allegedly beat his wife for talking to a, quote, unauthorized man, then duct-taped her and confined her to the bathroom of their home. Police were called after the wife`s friend found bound and beaten in the bathroom. The victim reportedly told cops her husband would frequently beat her and not even let her leave the house unless she was with him or going to work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a lot of emotional toll that will take place in a situation like this. The method and the mode was extremely brutal as far as I`m concerned.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cops reportedly found 20 cameras installed throughout the house. The video feed allegedly going straight to the husband`s iPhone. The husband is now facing charges, including kidnapping, assault with a deadly weapon, false imprisonment and spousal abuse.
GRACE: Alreisa Sarjachari, age 31, charged with kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon -- a knife, domestic battery, false imprisonment, criminal threats, witness intimidation. The victim? His own wife. This guy allegedly sets up a web of over 20 surveillance cameras on his own wife. Ellie, is it true that she would go to work and she never said anything to anyone?
ELLIE: Well, Nancy, he would not allow her -- remember, police say that this whole thing started because she spoke to an unauthorized man and that was why the husband became enraged, beat her, confined her to the house. He allegedly wouldn`t let her leave the house unless he was with her or she was going to work. She worked as a retail clerk we`re told.
GRACE: Is this guy American?
ELLIE: Don`t know that, Nancy, at this point.
GRACE: Did he also work, Ellie?
ELLIE: Yes, he did. He worked for a technology firm in Irvine. He`s a computer specialist we`re told.
GRACE: There`s a $150,000 bond. We are not naming the victim in this case. She`s a 30-year-old woman. The wife of the suspect. Let`s hope she is safe tonight. Let`s stop and remember army private first class David Simmons, 20. Kosovo, Indiana, killed, Iraq. From a long line of vets, awarded the bronze star, purple heart, loved the outdoors, hunting, fishing with his father, camping, baseball, go-karts, military history, favorite movies "Pearl Harbor" and "Saving Private Ryan." Remembered as everybody`s friend, with a smile that lit up a room. Leaves behind grieving parents David and Terry. David Simmons, American hero.
Thank you it to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp eastern. Until then, goodnight, friend.
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