HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell brought the public up to speed with the latest news and developments
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| Will the Holly Bobo case be solved? |
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Arrest in Holly Bobo Disappearance?
Aired March 4, 2014 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news, stunning new developments in the abduction of this beautiful 20-year-old Tennessee nursing student, Holly Bobo. We will talk exclusively to two of Holly`s best friends in just a moment. She is the missing cousin of country star Whitney Duncan.
Tonight we`ve got brand-new information on this case that riveted the nation. Could a whole group of individuals be involved in the kidnapping that has really troubled -- troubled so, so many people? Nearly three years after Holly was seen being dragged away from her home by a mystery man, dressed in camouflage. That`s what officials in Tennessee seem to think. It`s a group that`s involved.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Might have been somebody close, somebody that kind of knew her routine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We knew there was a lunch pail. We know there was blood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He knew that she was in fear of her life so she was complying with his demands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that there are people that have some vital information pertaining to the disappearance of Holly Bobo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a week or so before she disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holly, I love you so much. Please try to get home to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This poor family, three years of hell.
I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. Will they finally get closure?
Authorities have just arrested this Tennessee man, 29-year-old Zachary Adams, for allegedly holding a gun to another woman`s head and threatening to, quote, "gut her." Cops also executed warrants and searched his property, even bringing in cadaver dogs, all in connection with Holly Bobo`s abduction three years ago. Zachary Adams being held tonight on $1 million bond.
After his arraignment for assault charges, he told a reporter, quote, "I am not the one." What does that mean? OK? Cops still refuse to call him a suspect in Holly`s abduction. So who is he? What does he mean, "I`m not the one?" Are there other people involved?
A neighbor told us Zachary and his friends are, quote, "dangerous crackheads," end quote. Could he be talking about a group that includes his own brother?
Tonight, we are learning that Zach`s brother, Dylan, has been in federal custody since July. And that he told his mother that he`s been questioned about Zachary and Holly Bobo. Did this mystery brother crack and point the finger at Zachary?
Zachary has a disturbing connection to Holly. We hear Holly`s mother noticed Zachary and some of his friends following Holly around, stalking her at a raccoon hunt dinner just a week before she was abducted. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIELLE DARNELL, FAMILY FRIEND: There was a coon hunt a week or so before she disappeared.
In my heart, I believe they`ll find something. They`ve been here all day. My gut feeling is they have found something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Could more arrests be on the way? Investigative journalist Jon Leiberman, you`ve been working all your sources. Tell us what you have learned tonight.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think you can absolutely expect more charges prior to Zachary Adams`s March 10 bail hearing on these aggravated assault charges.
Let me tell you what we know, Jane. We know this. Police do believe that it is a group involved in the disappearance of Holly Bobo. They also believe that that man you`re looking at has information that is vital in the Holly Bobo investigation.
And that`s why just over the past five days, first they put him behind bars on drug charges, second, after he bonded out from that, they put him behind bars on aggravated assault charges. They are trying to squeeze him for information, because they do believe that he runs a meth-dealing ring in this area, and that he and a number of his cohorts know what happened to Holly Bobo.
One other quick thing, Jane. We have learned that this suspect`s mother and Holly Bobo`s mother actually were teachers in the same school district, as well. It`s another eerie, eerie coincidence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Marc Klaas, father of Polly Klaas, who was tragically abducted and murdered, has turned his grief into action. The founder of the Klaas Kids Foundation. You know more about abductions than anyone in America. What does all this, all these new developments, what does it tell you tonight?
MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I think that Jon`s assessment was pretty right on the money. What it tells you, because this is a very thorough investigation. It`s the TBI. It`s the FBI. It`s the local sheriff. It`s multiple jurisdictions. They`re being very careful, being very close to the vest, and I think they are trying to squeeze this man.
Now, if he is a crackhead -- and we do know that he`s a criminal with an extensive history back to the days when he was a teenager -- they`re going to be able to get the information they need. I find it very -- first of all, it`s very hard to keep a conspiracy quiet. If you have multiple people involved, somebody is going to spill the beans at some point. And it looks like we may be very, very close to that point right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`re going to talk exclusively with two of the best friends. In fact, the two best friends of Holly Bobo in a moment.
But first, some more background. Holly`s family has been tortured by this. They have been desperate to find her for nearly three years. We`ve interviewed the mother and the brother. Listen to this plea from 2011.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN BOBO, HOLLY`S MOTHER: Come forward, because there are four of us in our family, and one of us is missing. And, you know, if it was someone in your family, you would want -- if someone knows something, I mean, just tell us so that we can get Holly home where she belongs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: My heart goes out to this family. This is torture that you cannot imagine unless you`ve been in the same situation. I hope you can`t understand it, because that means you would have suffered in a similar vein, not knowing for three years what happened.
Cops supposedly looked into this Zachary Adams character a couple of years ago. Neighbors say his property has been searched before. So my question -- let`s bring in our Lion`s Den debate panel. And I`ll start with Elura Nanos, a former prosecutor, star of "Staten Island Law."
You know, here`s what I want to know. Why has it taken so long to get to this point? If Holly`s own mother saw him stalking Holly, at this raccoon hunt dinner, just a week before she vanished, he -- she had to have given that information, they had to have known this right up front. Why, three years?
ELURA NANOS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, Jane, it`s certainly possible that just the mother`s accusation that this guy was stalking her just really isn`t enough. I mean, we know that there`s something that led to the search warrant, which eventually led to this guy`s arrest and finding this other domestic violence situation going on.
So I mean, I think that what we have here is potentially, you know, some good lead suspicions and maybe some very careful police work, but what hopefully will happen is, when everything is done in its own time, we will actually get the right information. And then there will be legal issues...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right, right, right, but Areva Martin, sometimes you know, it`s easy to armchair quarterback. But whereas this guy was seen stalking her a week before she`s abducted, wherefore, why is Zach not suspect No. 1?
Remember, the poor brother was considered -- everyone`s looking at him saying, "Maybe he was lying when he said he woke up and he saw his sister being dragged off in camouflage. Maybe he had something to do with it." There was blood found right in the area, right in the -- I believe it was like the driveway area.
So I mean, why not say, right out, right off the bat, hey, three years ago, a week after this happened, there`s a guy who was stalking her a week before.
AREVA MARTIN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, Jane, I feel like you are kind of outraged by this. There are so many cases that it`s after the fact, after we find the victim has been murdered, that then, you know, there becomes this full-on analysis and investigation.
You know, we saw that in the Castro case in Ohio. There had been calls about the house that Castro lived in. The police went to the street but didn`t do a thorough investigation. And then, you know, some years later, we learn these women were held in captivity.
I just hope that the police are not ignoring, and didn`t ignore three years ago very obvious signs that could have led them to some information. This guy didn`t become a criminal today. This guy had a long criminal history. So the squeezing that we`re talking about that the police are doing now, I wish that would have happened three years ago, because maybe we could have gotten a lot closer to finding this young woman.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I mean, Elura Nanos, former prosecutor, also star of -- Michele Sileo, also star of "Staten Island Law." This guy, according to his own mother, is a drug addict. We`ll get to that in a second. She issued a statement saying, yes, my son is a drug addict, but that doesn`t make him a killer or monster. But he`s a drug addict.
According to neighbors he has a problem with crack or meth. Meth is, you know, the drug that you can do anything on. If you`re taking meth, all bets are off. You become a monster. You`ve seen the faces of meth.
Now, I`m happy, if he has an attorney, to have him on at any time he or she, whoever his attorney is, because we want to get the full story. But the bottom line is, whereas you were stalking her a week before, whereas you are a drug addict, whereas you`re allegedly, purportedly involved in methamphetamine, wherefore aren`t you right away target No. 1 - - Michele Sileo.
MICHELE SILEO, "STATEN ISLAND LAW": "No, I don`t think so. I don`t think that having an addiction makes you a monster or a murderer or a kidnapper. I do understand that he followed her around this raccoon hunt dinner. That doesn`t necessarily make him a stalker either. Is it suspicious behavior? In hindsight, absolutely. And maybe they did investigate that.
What I do like about what`s going on right now is the police aren`t really saying any information, which means they probably do have something. They have a very important lead. And I agree with Mr. Klaas that when you have more than one person involved in this, and let`s hope that that`s what`s going on, you`re going to wind up getting somebody to crack. And I think that that`s the best hope that Holly has right now, is that this is some kind of larger conspiracy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we hope. We want justice for Holly Bobo and her family. On the other side, we have two young women who are the best friends of Holly Bobo. And they`re going to talk to us about what this is doing to them, what it`s done to this community, what it`s done to Holly Bobo`s family. It`s hell. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOBO: Sometimes I have a hard time leaving home, because it`s like, you know, I`m waiting, sitting there waiting on Holly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Holly Bobo is still missing.
BOBO: We know that someone knows something.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they need her back, alive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, just let Holly -- let Holly go. Let her come back to her family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is hellish for that country star, Whitney Duncan. She is Holly Bobo, the missing girl`s cousin. And she`s been tweeting about the fact that there have been new developments in this case. So obviously, she is very invested in getting justice and having Holly come home.
Now, you are looking at pictures of some beautiful young ladies. This is Holly with her two best friends, whom we are talking to exclusively right now. We`re talking about Mary Beth Helmes and Jill White. I want to thank you both for joining us.
Mary Beth, first of all, I can`t even imagine what it`s like to have your best friend that you love so dearly, who looks so much like you, go missing. How has this impacted your life?
MARY BETH HELMES, FRIEND OF HOLLY (via phone); It`s changed me. You know, it`s been really difficult. It`s something that I think about every day. But it`s made me stronger.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tell us about Holly. Because from everything that we`ve heard, Holly was just about perfect. I mean, she was a wonderful sister. She was a nursing student. She was a wonderful daughter. She was kind. She was compassionate. She loved to sing. She was -- she was just a wonderful, wonderful human being. So many people have become invested in her story. You tell us; describe her in your words.
HELMES: You know, Holly was really a blessing in my life. We met when we were 15 or 16. And she was probably one of the funniest people that I`ve ever known. When you first met her, she was very, very, very quiet. But then when you got to know her, she was the exact opposite. Quiet was the last thing that she was. And she was just a lot of fun to be around.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got to talk a little bit about the investigation. But I know you`re very concerned about not stepping into that. So let`s just state some facts.
Some are wondering if police are targeting a group of people. They believe they`re targeting a group of people that they`re trying to squeeze information about them about the Holly Bobo abduction.
Now, they arrested Zachary Adams just four days ago, and accused of putting a gun to a woman`s head, and threatening to, quote, "gut" her with a knife. What a violent act, if true.
The very next day, though, ops arrested the woman he allegedly attacked and she`s pictured here, Amber Gray (ph). Now, she`s accused of failure to appear on previous charges. Turns out that she is the sister of Zachary`s girlfriend. Now, that girlfriend claim that this woman, her sister made up the whole assault story because she`s jealous over Zachary`s relationship with her.
So it seems to me like cops are trying to round up this entire circle of friends, and Zachary`s own mother has admitted that Zachary has a drug problem. Others say it goes beyond that.
But you live in the area. Mary Beth, do you know anything about this crowd, this crowd that`s been described as kind of a crowd that -- well, at least Zachary is involved with drugs?
HELMES: I do not know anything about the crowd. I didn`t grow up here. I`ve been here since I was about 15. I don`t know any of them. I don`t have any more information than the general public does. So I mean, I don`t know -- I don`t know anything about Zach other than what has been released.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You weren`t at the, like the raccoon hunt dinner where she was a week before, were you?
HELMES: I don`t how factual that actually is. But I was not there that year, no.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you, Jill White -- you`re also the best friend of Holly Bobo. Tell me about the last time you spoke to her, the last time you saw her.
JILL WHITE, FRIEND OF HOLLY BOBO: I had spoken with Holly about a day or two before she came up missing. It was really just a funny encounter. We -- I met her on the road, and I called her to talk to her. My mother and I were having -- we were talking about her license plate. And so it really was just a funny encounter about that. And Holly and I were supposed to sing at church that following Sunday so we were calling to talk about when we were going to meet to practice singing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to say that I know it`s been probably just a hellish experience for you two young ladies. And I think it`s great that you keep that spirit, that spirit and that hope that it will work out OK.
But some of the things that we`re learning are very, very -- well, they`re disturbing, to say the least.
Now Zachary Adams` mother, Cindy, released a statement to local media. This is the mother of the guy who was arrested, whose property was searched in connection with Holly Bobo`s disappearance. Searched with cadaver dogs. They even dug up his backyard with excavation material.
She refers to her son as a drug addict. She also says, quote, "Zachary Adams has to my knowledge not been questioned by the TBI, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, regarding Holly Bobo`s case. His brother, Dylan, Adams, has been interrogated without an attorney present and is being held in federal holding."
She claims this other son, Dylan, has been behind bars, federal bars since July, and that he told his mother he`s been interrogated about Zachary and Holly.
So I have to go back to our Lion`s Den panel. Adam Swickle, criminal defense attorney, can you try to analyze the situation? You`ve got this mystery brother. We don`t really know what he`s being held on. Claims he`s held behind federal bars since July. We can`t even get a photo of him. I mean, is it really hard to get any information? We`ve been waiting for a couple of days on Zachary`s rap sheet, which supposedly is on its way and just doesn`t arrive. It`s all very mysterious. What do you think`s going on?
ADAM SWICKLE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, first of all, I agree with Jon`s assessment that this is clearly a squeeze job.
But law enforcement needs to be very, very careful when they act this way. They need to be careful about talking with people without lawyers. And they need to be very careful about releasing information. Because they certainly don`t want a defense attorney like myself coming forward and destroying their investigation. They`ve got to be very vigilant. But they also have to be very careful about who they interview and the way in which they do it, so they don`t rush to judgment and ruin their case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, I hate to say this, Marc Klaas, because we assume that Holly`s family is watching. We pray for them. We hope that it all turns out OK. But at this point three years later, and especially with what we`re learning, we have to assume that there`s a good possibility that she might be deceased. And you know what they say: no body, no case. I mean, that`s the big problem, Marc Klaas.
KLAAS: Well, it is a big problem. But Jane, I`ve been in their shoes. Certainly not for three years, but for two months. And you start out very hopeful that you`ll get your daughter back alive. But there`s a big enduring hole in your heart. And it`s something everyone in that family is living with, and probably most especially her brother, because he`s also living with the guilty of having seen her being kidnapped and not knowing what was going on.
So at this point, they want Holly home. They want this to end. They want to know that their child is no longer being hurt by anybody. And that really is probably the overwhelming feeling that they have right now. That, and the overreaching anxiety that they`ve had to live with for these past three years.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand what you`re saying: not knowing is the worst thing of all.
Debbie, New York, what do you have to say? Debbie, New York.
CALLER: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CALLER: Jane, my comment`s not about this topic, but I just -- I feel -- someone mentioned before that with all these people involved I would think that at this -- by this time someone would have, you know, still...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cracked. Yes, so what are you saying? So what`s the other possibility?
I mean, let me go back to the friends. Jill White, is there any possibility that this was not an abduction, that she went off on her own accord and left nursing school, left her brother and her mother and her best friends and just disappeared into the night for no reason?
WHITE: Absolutely not. That is not Holly`s personality. And you could know Holly for ten minutes and know that she would never, ever leave her family.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So yes, I don`t see that as a possibility. I think this is an abduction, tragically. And I think that whoever is involved is a dangerous, dangerous person. And we`ve just got to get to the bottom of it. We`ve got to get justice for Holly`s family.
We`ve got more information. We`re working this case all day. We`ve got more information for you on the other side, and we`re taking your calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-year-old college student vanished.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only person who saw the suspect is Holly Bobo`s brother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The brother is not a suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He told deputies a man in camo was with his sister in the woods.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It might have been somebody close, somebody that kind of knew her routine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know there was a lunch pail. We know there was blood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He knew that she was in fear of her life, so she was complying with his commands.
BOBO: Holly, I love you do much. Please come home to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was walking toward the woods. There was no leading. There was no dragging. They just looked like they were casually walking toward the woods. And it wasn`t until later that I realized that my sister went to the woods in fear for her life. That she must have been threatened with a weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And poor Holly`s brother. Initially people heard the story and thought, well, maybe he`s lying; maybe he did it. But he`s been completely cleared. And he`s suffered enough.
And you know, he just told you right there, Holly was led into the woods by a mystery man in camouflage, her blood found nearby. This is a very rural, heavily wooded area.
Cops have always said it was somebody from the community who was familiar with the area. There`s not a lot of people in this area. It`s not like New York City. Adam`s property is only 14 miles north of Holly`s house in Tennessee where she was last seen. I mean, this is a neighbor, essentially, in this kind of rural area. And it`s disgusting.
All right. Let`s go out to our Lion`s Den panel. And I want to -- I want to pause for a second, because I believe Jon Leiberman has new information for us. Jon, what have you learned?
LEIBERMAN: Well, I want to tell you three quick things, Jane. No. 1, Zachary Adams was recently released from federal parole and probation, just two or three months ago. That`s one thing.
The second thing is, what precipitated these search warrants is this. My sources are telling me that they got information in from a human source that corroborated some of the physical evidence that they had, and that`s what has led to the recent search warrants of his property. So they believe, in fact, they`re making major progress.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Elura Nanos, former prosecutor, star of Staten Island law. They searched his property with an excavator, with cadaver dogs. If they don`t find anything, then what?
NANOS: Well, I think that if they don`t find something, that there`s going to be a problem, because we`ve got to have something to hang this on. And three years have gone by, and apparently we don`t have enough yet to hang a case on.
However, I mean, this really seems like a situation where we just have to be patient. They have a ring of people. They have a bunch of -- basically a bunch of bad guys. It sounds like they`re really trying to be thoughtful with their investigation. And I think we just have to be patient while the police and the investigators just put the pieces together to actually figure out who did what in this ring of crazy people.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And you know what? Insta-write me. And that means go to my Instagram and -- @JaneVelezMitchell. Send me a video. Tell me what you think. We`ll put it up.
A highly charged, very emotional day. So many tears in the murder trial of Olympic star Oscar Pistorius. Did the man the world knows as the Blade Runner break down in court and sob? You won`t believe what victim Reeva Steenkamp`s mother is saying about the night her daughter was gunned down by Oscar Pistorius.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she yelled for help. I also heard a man screaming for help. And he -- three times he yelled for help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you, perhaps, give us a demonstration by using bumps?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE Bang. Bang, bang, bang.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This occurrence was indeed an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you plead?
OSCAR PISTORIUS, ON TRIAL FOR REEVA STEENKAMP`S DEATH: Not guilty, my lady.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fear in that woman`s voice is difficult to explain to the court.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The officer said Pistorius aimed his gun at the toilet pointing out that he had to turn and fire at an angle in order to hit the toilet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a very emotional situation to hear.
PISTORIUS: Not guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Tonight, drama in court. It was one hell of an emotional day in the trial of the century. A witness broke down sobbing on the stand. Accused murderer Oscar Pistorius appeared to wipe away tears -- there he is right there. And victim Reeva Steenkamp`s mother opened up in a gut wrenching new interview. Does she believe the national hero and sports superstar murdered her daughter or could she possibly believe the deadly Valentine`s Day shooting was just a tragic mistake?
The answer may shock you. A woman who lives about 500 yards from Oscar`s home took the stand for the second day in a row. And she sobbed, she cried as she recalled hearing a woman screaming, followed by a barrage of gunfire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you witness?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was awful to hear her shout before the shots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. That witness is crying. And her account completely destroys Oscar Pistorius` story that he mistakenly thought he was shooting an intruder who was hiding inside the enclosed toilet room inside his lavish bathroom. He insists he thought Reeva was still asleep in bed. But if Reeva were screaming before and during the gunshots, as three witnesses have now testified, he had to have known it was his stunning girlfriend behind that toilet door and not some robber.
And that`s just what the prosecutor`s theory is, that the couple had a knockdown, drag-out argument and an angry Oscar gunned her down in cold blood. But what does Reeva`s own mother believe? Listen to what she just told NBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUNE STEENKAMP, MOTHER OF REEVA STEENKAMP: If he made a mistake, an enormous -- it`s an enormous mistake, and I`ve lost the most precious thing in my life, myself and my husband, our daughter, our beautiful daughter. And we were close. We were very close. And I`ve lost everything that`s important to me. But still, I can forgive. I can forgive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she`s a big person to be able to say that. But as much as my heart goes out to her, I have to wonder if the victim`s own mother is saying, quote, "if he made a mistake," end quote, prosecutors are saying it was no mistake, it was murder.
Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Straight out to the "Lion`s Den".
Elura Nanos, former prosecutor, my heart goes out to the mother of this woman gunned down.
ELURA NANOS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But by implying it could have been a mistake, Oscar is insisting it was a mistake, doesn`t that sabotage and undercut prosecutors who are doing their best to prove this was cold-blooded murder?
NANOS: Truthfully, I really don`t think so. I don`t think it matters what the mother says. I don`t think it matters what the witnesses say. I think the story is ridiculous. We don`t even have a jury here that maybe we could distract with some other things. What we have is a judge who`s going to listen to the evidence and know that there`s no way that someone shooting through a door to a victim is ever going to result in a fair acquittal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I respectfully disagree with you 100 percent. A -- it`s precisely because we have a judge deciding this case. A judge who`s not sequestered like a jury might be -- a judge who can read and see anything from her laptop. That when the victim`s own mother says something like that, you`ve got to wonder, maybe she should succumb to the intense political pressure, since he`s a national idol and icon to let him off the hook.
NANOS: I don`t think the judge is going to do that.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: There`s more pressure the other way.
NANOS: I agree.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, yes?
LEIBERMAN: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You think so?
LEIBERMAN: I do. I think because so many women --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You think that the lead detective was thrown off the case.
LEIBERMAN: I think because so many -- no, first of all, the judge isn`t going to give in to pressure. That`s short-changing the judge and her experience and her skills.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not saying she is but --
LEIBERMAN: I believe there`s more pressure the other way. So many women are getting murdered in South Africa, I think there`s probably tremendous pressure to actually convict in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well there should be only pressure to convict --
M1: Jane, Jane --
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: Jane --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- ok, go ahead. Let`s go around the room. Areva - -
MARTIN: Jane -- the mother`s statement, she`s just trying to find peace with respect to her daughter`s death. She is in no way suggesting that Oscar is not guilty of intentionally murdering her daughter.
I mean we have to look at the facts here. If your spouse, your partner gets up in the -- in the middle of the night from the bed, they`re either in the kitchen getting water or they`re in the restroom. So for this guy to come guns ablaze shooting four, five times into that bathroom, and then to claim that somehow he didn`t know she was in there is just a preposterous argument and judge is going to see right through it. And I think we`re going to get a conviction in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, well -- you know what --
Let me say something. David Otunga, you know what I`m talking about. Oh, yes. We say it`s an open-and-shut case. That`s what we said about Casey Anthony, that`s what we said about George Zimmerman, that`s what we said about Michael Dunn. The list goes on and on.
We know that political pressure can be -- I`m not saying -- listen, I admire this judge. She`s done a great job so far. What I`m saying is, people have said things like nobody knew where South Africa was on the map until Oscar Pistorius. That he is an idol there. He`s been arrested for other things -- they dropped the charges because the cops were more interested in taking photos with him at the station house.
(CROSSTALK)
DAVID OTUNGO, ATTORNEY: Jane, you have to understand, over there, Oscar Pistorius is pretty much their O.J. Simpson. Like this is their trial of the century. He`s so famous over there. You never know how all that is going to play together. And one thing to bring up, too, is it is just one judge. It`s not a jury. This is one person`s opinion.
And it`s interesting to see the different pressures like you mentioned earlier on both sides, you never know how that`s going to play out. But his story is just preposterous. I mean it really is. Saying that he`s in love with this girlfriend, he gets up, thinks there`s a burglar, goes to the bathroom and this person is locked in the bathroom. And let`s say it was a burglar. Who do you know would break into your home, lock themselves in your bathroom? What were they planning to steal, toilet paper? It`s completely ridiculous.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what about the idea of saying, who`s there, and then she goes, "Darling, it`s me." No, one of the witnesses on the stand - -
OTUNGA: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- today can see part of Oscar`s house from her balcony. And here`s what she said about the night of the shooting. And then we`re going to go live to South Africa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seemed like somebody was involved in a fight. And these people were talking in loud voices, my lady. It lasted for about an hour. I placed a pillow on top of my head. It was about 3:00 in the morning I heard four gunshots, my lady.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jen Su, TV and radio presenter, joining us live from Johannesburg, South Africa. And we very much appreciate you staying up so late -- I think it`s like 2:00 in the morning there -- to join us.
I know you know everybody involved in this case. You have to be careful about what you say. You live in South Africa. But let me ask you about this idea that a lot of us in America look at this and say, wait a second, you just heard a witness say they were arguing for an hour before the gunshots went off. They were having an argument. It totally destroys his claim that he thought his girlfriend was asleep, that they were having an argument for an hour beforehand.
JEN SU, TV AND RADIO PERSONALITY: I mean look, we have just started with the witnesses. The prosecution has brought some of them in. We have another 105 witnesses to go. I think it`s very hard to pre-judge at this point.
The first witness, Michelle Berger, she was amazing on the stand. She really held her resolve under cross-examination by Barry Roux. But still, she lives more than a football field away. There`s still, you know, things that we have to really check. We haven`t looked at the blood spatter test. We haven`t looked at the forensics. We haven`t really looked at a lot of the evidence, the cell phone records that need to be presented in court. So I think it`s very hard to jump to conclusions.
When people say it`s absolutely preposterous that there could be a house break-in, I`m telling you, in South Africa, it is a concern. People have panic buttons, they have infrared sensors. Myself, I have a burglar alarm system throughout my whole house. I live on a secure estate, as secure as Oscar Pistorius`. Celebrities have told me they`ve had break- ins, where they go blank. When there`s someone in their house, an intruder that comes in, they don`t know what to do. They have a temporary moment of insanity I think that happens.
I`m not saying that shooting your girlfriend dead is the right thing. But there are these possibilities that could have happened. It could have been an accident. Of course, we need to really stop pre-judging and look at what is going to happen in the days to come.
Now, I do think that what Reeva`s mother had said, June Steenkamp in this recent interview on NBC was very compelling. The fact that she can say, "I can forgive him, because I don`t want this bitterness in my life," I think that is an unbelievable statement that she has made. And Judge Masipa will certainly be hearing that when she does (inaudible) tomorrow.
It still will not stop them from objectively looking at the evidence. But I think that it will be something that she is going to look at in the back of her mind.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course it is.
Stay right there. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, TALK SHOW HOST: How are you? Welcome to Los Angeles.
First of all, I want you on my team in charades.
Why are you dressed like a magician?
ROB FORD, MAYOR OF TORONTO: Have I tried it? Probably in one of my drunken stupors.
KIMMEL: Why are you here?
FORD: I wasn`t elected to be perfect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, self-confessed crack smoking, boozing Mayor Rob Ford gets an intervention from Jimmy Kimmel on television. The controversial politician appeared on "Jimmy Kimmel Live" insisting he`s just an average, hard working politician and wasn`t elected to be perfect. That`s the understatement of the century.
Kimmel confronted Mayor Ford about his outrageous behavior, forcing Ford to watch his own embarrassingly bizarre and profane rant. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMMELL: And now this -- first of all, I want you on my team in charades. But were you classically trained in pantomime? Or was that off the cuff?
Next video -- now, that lady you apologized to her afterwards. Is it that once you get up to a certain speed, there`s no stopping?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. Ok -- so he stands there, Rob Ford, beet red, watching his own behavior being played on a big screen before a global audience.
Straight out to Anna David, CEO, AfterPartyTreatment.com, you and I both know about this stuff. I`m 18 years sober. What`s really fascinating is the insight into the alcoholic mind. He`s not embarrassed by what he did -- ok. Jumping up and down, doing crack, getting drunk, knocking old ladies over, dancing in a city council meeting. But he is embarrassed because Jimmy Kimmel played him -- all this behavior on television.
ANNA DAVID, CEO, AFTERPARTYTREATMENT.COM: Well, absolutely, Jane. Also, the alcoholic mind that says, oh, it`s going to be good for me to go on national television, because I`ll spread the word about how great I am, and how much I care about Toronto and how much I do sort of this magical thinking, that it`s actually going to be so much more embarrassing than it`s going to be helpful.
But it was the very first time I actually felt incredibly sorry for him. I mean my heart goes out to him as a suffering addict. But seeing him sitting there sweating, wearing that sort of ridiculous outfit, being the butt of the joke and kind of on some level knowing it. I do think hopefully that`s when we can stop joking about him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I mean look, the first person who has to stop joking is him. And when he goes on national television and is so deluded, as you say, that he thinks that, oh, they`re not going to show the videos of him behaving outrageously. I mean Kimmel did humiliate Mr. Crack mayor. He played the outrageous videos. But they`ve already gone viral anyway.
Here`s one, watch this. And see how Toronto Mayor Rob Ford deals with the children that are his citizens as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMMEL: Now, this is my favorite. I have to say, this is my favorite of all the videos. This is a Christmas parade. This is you passing out candy canes and literally dumping them on the children as if you were feeding birds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman, he can`t deal with anybody. He literally throws the candy at children without ever interacting with them. It`s like he`s so hyped up that even handing a child a piece of candy, it`s just too much. He can`t do it.
LEIBERMAN: Yes. And the thing that struck me, too, Jane, is he continues to goad the police chief of Toronto, and call him out and make fun of him and almost challenge him to arrest him. And I actually think at the end of the day, he is going to get charged with something, because just continually is calling out the police chief, which is not a wise thing to do when he has the entire police department --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, when are they going to charge him? I mean really, when are they going to charge if they haven`t done so yet? And remember, he says he`s tough on crime. He wants them to go out and arrest all the other drug addicts. All right. So if they`re arresting other drug addicts and people breaking the law, why don`t they arrest him, too?
Stay right there, we`re just getting started on this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORD: I`m not going to go to the Oscars but we`re going to an Oscar party.
I`m just coming down here to promote and sell Toronto and tell people what a great city it is.
I`m going to win the next election and run the city like I`ve been doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMMEL: Listen, you know, if you`re drinking enough that you can try crack in your 40s and you don`t remember it, maybe that`s something you might want to think about, like talking to somebody.
FORD: I wasn`t elected to be perfect, Jimmy. I was elected to clean up the mess that I inherited and that`s exactly what I`ve done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God, what a pathetic guy. That`s ABC`s "Jimmy Kimmel Live".
Anna David CEO of AfterPartyChat.com, it seems like Kimmel did try an intervention but it didn`t work. He`s still refusing to go to rehab, he still has these lame phrases, these cliches. You know, "I`m not perfect," whatever. Is he one of these people who`s just constitutionally incapable of self-honesty and we`re going to find him dead someday?
DAVID: I mean that`s absolutely possible, but I do want to say, I wouldn`t exactly say what Jimmy Kimmel did was an intervention. I mean Jimmy Kimmel is using him for humor, and I would hardly say maybe that`s something you ought to look at is going to have an impact on a guy in as much denial as Rob Ford seems to be. But yes, I would agree with you that his denial is sick and he does not seem interested in hearing it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you know, and he`s a hypocrite, because he wants to crack down hard on those other crack addicts out there. What a mess.
Nancy Grace is next.
END
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